You Get What You Pay For

September 23, 2009

5 min read

Yesterday I went to meet a new potential client who sells a very high end product (upwards of £70k per item) who also wants to produce a website for each product that is sold, to essentially give the purchaser a turn-key solution from the word go.

My job would obviously be designing the sites that get sold onto the clients. When the initial enquiry came in we had a chat over the telephone and I asked how much he was currently paying per site, he said "£400", to which I said that I would be considerably more and would he still like the meeting, he said 'yes' so I went and had a face to face chat with him.

Without going into too much detail, as I truly do not believe this is the clients fault, I'm just seeing an increase in this across the board, the client in question was thankfully a web savvy client who knew the difference between a table based and div based website, albeit all of his websites contained tables used in the wrong context but that's by the by for the moment, he was very easy to chat with regarding the best solution for his site(s). I certainly came up with an excellent solution to his problem that would provide him with an superb selling point to his customers and also considerate of him making a nice profit on each site too, solutions which no other web designer had suggested to him.

Back to the office, write the proposal, send it. Wait.

Wait some more. Phone rings. It was the client calling to let me know I was too expensive and that if I could negotiate down on price..

Somewhere in the region of £400, like we're currently paying...

He would be able to use me. I should point out here, I have the utmost respect for clients who have the common courtesy to call/email to say "Thank you but we won't be using you for x,y,z reasons" - as normally, as we all know, a proposal gets sent with out so much as a "Thank you" to be had, let alone a response if you haven't quoted what they thought you should.

The price point however, is of course an issue. After posting to Twitter I realised there's a small minority of people "making websites" who just don't understand pricing on the web, this small group don't realise how much harm they are causing our industry.

I had quite a few messages sent to me on Twitter, including:

forward this to @**** he would knock out a website for that price.. plus hes good.

and

pass that site to me ... i will look on it ..

And I sent back the same response to both, saying they are not understanding my point. If I wanted to I could "knock out" a website for £400, I could "knock out" a website for £10, unless I'm needing to licence something, my only outgoing cost is my time, therefore anyone could do a website for any cost, but there's a reason we don't and this is the big black hole many people are just not grasping. What we do isn't easy folks, we take it for granted because we know it inside out and this is our professions but for many people, turning on a computer is about as far as they go, let alone all the many things we have to do to produce a site - just like any other service industry (solicitors, physiotherapists etc. etc) , we have specialist knowledge of our sector but a small minority are completely undervaluing that knowledge.

It's all about integrity, integrity for what you do, integrity to the web community. By "knocking out" websites the care and attention to detail ultimately must suffer and in turn, give web designers a bad name as inevitably, the client is going to come into problems later down the line and turn to someone for help, and then expect that person to be super cheap too.

It's about value for the client, how much is that website worth to them? Not a lot if someone down the road will produce it for £400.

Apple are a great example of brand and price point awareness, the products are high end, they do their jobs spectacularly and the price points are the same across the board, you won't find Apple stores with differentiating prices and they never have a sale. They have a product they know consumers want so they have no need to drop the pricing substantially - people will still buy.

As web designers, we are holding the largest marketing portal in the palm of our hands and yet people still don't understand it's value.

It's up to the designer/coder if they want to accept £400 for that job.Some people don't have the luxury of turning down work - a response to my tweet

and

i got your point ...i am saying that send that project to me ... send that client mail to me ...

No one has the luxury of turning down work - even web designers who are busy and booked up obviously still need a stream of enquiries to enable us to carry on into the future.

Put it this way, if the Yellow Pages, (the traditional printed book) 10 years ago said to everyone "You can have a full page colour advert for £10 per year" can you imagine how big the book would be? They didn't, because this would devalue their product. This is a very basic way of me trying to get across what some web designers are doing to our industry, only it's worse because it's starting to filter through to clients who we then have to work with.

Let me go back to a quote from above regarding Apple:

They have a product they know consumers want so they have no need to drop the pricing substantially - people will still buy.

We have a product consumers want, we have the ability to pretty much set the pricing based on the value to the client however, it needs to be done by every single web designer. If the price point was, for arguments sake £1000 + to build a basic site, clients would get to know this and everyone would gradually see budgets increase to make allowances for this, yes including you Mister "I will produce a site for £400".

There's so much more to this argument than I can even get into now however, let me just check, you want me to plan, project manage, design, develop, jQuery, cross browser test, validate, seo and respond to the countless emails you are bound to send me, all minutes within you sending them, for £400?

Sorry, but I'd pay £400 to keep my integrity.

Comments

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Damien

December 8, 2010 at 9:13 pm

To be honest, generally ‘You get what you pay for’ is true, but due to the competitiveness of the web design industry, currently the clients getting a bit more Bang for his Buck at the moment and good designers are willing to do alot more work for less money!

Damien

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April 13, 2010 at 1:41 pm

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McBonio

December 23, 2009 at 8:30 pm

Unfortunately you meet clients like that, I met with one that wanted 72 unique one page designs for £100 each!

You get what you pay for and a few months down the line, the same clients that baulked at your quote end up coming back to you and asking you to re-work/remake their site as the cheap designer they used has done a poor job 😉

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October 30, 2009 at 10:13 pm

[…] had to link to this post from Sarah Parmenter, where she talks about pricing in web design. I really suggest you read it here. I think the […]

Dan

October 29, 2009 at 1:12 pm

@Shantharam – I wasn’t actually talking about exchange rates. =/

Kyle Steed

October 27, 2009 at 9:56 pm

Sarah,

What a wonderfully written article. Thank you for sharing your thoughts, along with a few of the (albeit absurd) twitter comments you received. I am still technically an in-house designer working my 9-5, but have ventured in to the land of freelance. And pricing myself accurately is something that’s still hard for me to do. But this was a like a big boost of confidence to stand up and admit that what I do is valuable and worthy of more than just a few hundred bucks.

On a side-note, have you thought of increasing the font-size for your body content? Either that, or making the contrast a bit easier on the eyes. Just my 2 cents. Take it or leave it.

Matt Saunders

October 25, 2009 at 11:58 pm

in relation to this post, see:
https://thewebstation.wordpress.com/2009/10/25/this-is-why-i-complain-so-much/

I keep this blog unrelated to Northern Web – it’s where I rant about the industry and clients!

Dave Ellis

October 23, 2009 at 11:25 pm

Sometimes, to mix things up a little bit I take on sites for very little money. Why? Plenty of reasons. Sometimes I want a relatively quick project to break the pattern. Sometimes I really want to help the client out. I can make a big difference to their business and I’ll be honest here – I make a good living from this industry, I can afford to take on jobs that are nowhere near the usual budgets from time to time.

So what does that client get for their money? Well, almost the opposite of what you describe. Rather than finishing up with a sub standard site produced by some cowboy, they get a site that is way beyond the money they’ve paid. Surely that’s a good thing? What do I get from it? A sense of pride. I don’t think it compromises my integrity at all – quite the opposite I would say.

I’m in the fortunate position of being able to pick and choose my projects to a certain extent. No-one forces me to take those sites on from time to time. Sometimes I just want to.

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Shantharam

October 21, 2009 at 8:22 am

Got to agree with what Dan has said. Not intending to cause an issue but there are people from all over the world who do designing and development and £400 is valued differently all over. It may be just 400 bucks in England but when you convert that amount to what it is in my country it comes to 30,163.301 and unless you are really really experienced you are not going to get that amount. Being new to the web development community it is always difficult to start off at that rates, so people do cut down to even below that. Out here i know people who do work for 12000 bucks that is $260. Also sometimes it goes as low as $40. It is all a part of getting in.

Simon

October 13, 2009 at 7:18 am

Just to say that I don’t take any project under 2500.00$ CAD… And for this, it’s a basic website, 4 or 5 pages with a contact form, branding included sometime…

Under 2500$, I feel like abused.

Simon

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October 2, 2009 at 1:06 pm

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Matt Hill

September 30, 2009 at 3:32 pm

Here, here @Dan.

I think we should also remember the true meaning of the word quality. It’s not what one might think, in fact it means “fit for purpose.”

A website that costs £400 and is completely fit for the purpose that the client needs, is indeed a quality website. If it serves their needs (or more specifically their customers needs) and they are thrilled with it, then job done.

I’m quite perturbed by the notion that this industry is becoming devalued. It isn’t, it’s just more diverse than ever. Maybe it’s true that there are more low cost solutions being created for low budget clients than ever before. Notwithstanding the fact we’re in recession: So What? Everyone in this game has to ramp up their offering to remain competitive. That’s how you stay in business.

Let’s stop complaining about the “devalued” industry and instead find the clients we want to work with and show them why we’re worth the higher price. If we can’t do that, we should probably be doing something else.

Dan

September 29, 2009 at 5:00 pm

This stance on this issue bugs me, and here’s why.

I’m not a professional website designer but I do make the odd site. I don’t claim to be the best at it but I won’t give people total shit either (I understand and care about web standards, browser support and accessibility etc). I do it on the side to earn a little extra income to pay for things like TVs and holidays. I tell the potential clients this up front. I tell them that’s why I’m doing the job for the price I quote them. I tell them my limitations and if they still want me to do the job then I’ll take it. I’ll, hopefully be making one for a local tradesman soon. I’ll be doing this work, with the steadfast goal of giving him a functional, good looking website but I’ll place a large bet that I’ll charge him a price that you would scoff at.

But enough about that, there’s two reasons this stance rubs me up the wrong way. First off, let’s take your Apple analogy. I don’t see how you can realistically apply that to the web design industry. Apple are the only ones (along with a closely regulated group of resellers) that sell those products. They have exclusivity. That’s the reason they fix their prices and never have a sale. Web designers don’t have exclusivity on a single god damn thing. Anyone who can learn to do the job, and do it as well as you, can offer the same product you can. It’s simple business seen in pretty much every industry; one of the most effective ways to get more people to choose you over your otherwise identical competitor is to beat them on price. We’d all like to live in a world where it’s the highest quality product that has the most success but we never will. It just doesn’t work that way.

My other problem with this stance is that you price out the little guy. Take the client I mentioned above that I’m in talks with. He’s just starting out in his business and I’d wager that the price you’d quote him would be one that he simply couldn’t afford to pay. You’re forcing a brand new BMW on them when all they realistically need is a 2 year old Mondeo. Now I understand that you have a solid pricing plan that you want to remain true to, that’s totally fine. What I don’t like is that you seem to be coming down awfully hard on others for no other reason that they are prepared to be less expensive.

Now don’t get me wrong, I totally believe in giving the client quality. But I think it’s more than a little blinkered to say that just because someone is less expensive they’ll give their client something that isn’t totally right for them. I wrote a post a while back about this (oddly with near enough the same title as this one) and while my opinions have become more refined in the time between then and now, my core beliefs remain the same.

While this reply might seem strong, please don’t interpret it as me bashing you in any way. I have the utmost respect for you and your work, I just needed to get my opinion out there.

Keep the great posts coming.

Dan

Chris Walley

September 29, 2009 at 10:34 am

The ‘professional’ argument comes up again and again in these debates and I don’t buy into the logic. Just because someone can afford to charge less than you does not automatically make them less professional.

It reminds me of the way the American and European automotive industries chose to ignore early competition from Japanese car manufacturers. Their attitude was that those newcomers could only offer inferior products, their customers thought otherwise.

There could be many reasons someone can undercut your price, the obvious one is if they are operating from abroad, the other is if they intend to put fewer hours is. However they may also simply have fewer overheads, less expenses, lower living costs, more frugal life style. They may simply have a loss leadership strategy using capital to acquire clients at the expense of short term profit.

Many people want to create barriers to entry, now they are comfortable, they want some sort of accreditation put in place that suits their situation. To me this is monopolization and has dubious ethics. Regardless it wont stop customers shopping around.

The Web design industry is just so easy to get into, those that don’t diversify their skills or find a lucrative market niche will only find it becomes more saturated in time.

The answer is to stop expecting the industry to change and start raising your profile with skills and values more in line with your target customer profile. Once you’ve done that you can start dictating your terms with new enquiries such as stating minimum project sizes for new customers.

Andy Marshall

September 29, 2009 at 8:20 am

one thing that frustrates me and a couple people have mentioned it, including Paul:

“Sorry guys, but I do have a right to be irritated by designers who claim to be professionals and charge obscenely low rates for their services.”

Who is in the position to be judging what good designers are and what makes them a “professional”?
There is no body of organisation that can accredit a webdesigners skills, or experience or quality of work.

One reason the market is so loaded with webdesigners is quite likely because there is no barrier to entry. As I said before, you can’t just walk into someone house and fiddle with their electrics without being trained, certified, insured etc, but there’s nothing to stop anyone tinkering with, breaking and ruining a clients website / prescence.

A part of me would like to see some form of organisation that could provide some base line of quality, so at least a client know the webdeveloper they’ve hired will at least be using decent, valid HTML, they know what a CMS is, is aware of the basics of security etc…
but the other part of me doesn’t as I don’t know if I would have gotten into this market if there was one.

I personally think I make good websites that are worth the money we charge and represent a good value for money, but it would be hard for me to objectively quantify that statement, as it would be for someone to disagree with my statement in a similar way.

About the use of Apple tho as an example, Apple also have years of experience, a massive marketing team and a very strong and unique reputation – they can quite easily ask the price they charge (across the board) and people will still buy them and feel they got value for money because they have the standing to do so.
For those of us that are starting out, we don’t have the equivalent reputation that can ask for those figures, and we have to make do with what we have and work hard to build on it and work towards those kinda of figures.

Personally I think Apples are over-rated, over-hyped and over-priced, so I don’t buy em and am very happy with my very stable, very capable, vista toting PC i bought from pcspecialist.co.uk (highly recommended!), but thats a another matter…!

Kevin Holesh

September 28, 2009 at 6:08 pm

Sarah,

It’s supply and demand. In economics, the supply curve is slopping up, meaning there are a few people who will provide a service at a low price, and an increasing number of people willing to provide the same service as the price increases.

In any industry, there will be people undercutting the competition in an attempt to gain market share (or website jobs). That doesn’t devalue your particular product because what you offer is much better than the person who can “knock out” a website.

Think of yourself as the Apple of web designs. Even though customers can get a decent PC for $600, they’re willing to pay over twice that for the quality of the product.

Aaron Witherow

September 28, 2009 at 10:49 am

Good points and it seems a lot of people still don’t get the amount of work and time that goes into creating a website. Its also not just a monetary matter its about providing a solution for their business but constrained by how much the client can afford to pay.

I couldn’t create a website for 400 quid because you are not building a website for the client depending on their content or business goals or branding, you are building it solely on price which means you are just trying to make their content look pretty. Point them in the direction of a template website and tell them that they will not achieve anything from it.

Its not just about supply and demand its about a tailored solution to solve the problem they have, that could be informational or getting people to buy their product. All of which requires a little thought.

Everyone needs to start out and if they want to build a website for 400 quid, fair play but the client needs to understand why that cheap website will not work for them or maybe they are happy taking advantage of people starting out just as people are happy having 14 year old kids serving you a mcdonalds.

Rob Jones

September 28, 2009 at 10:40 am

I’m a little late to this thread but would still like to add my tuppence worth into the mix…

There are a lot of points above I agree with, and like you Sarah, I would steer away from the value end of the market. The annoying thing for you is that you qualified the cost rising considerably before getting involved, only to have wasted your time and effort creating a proposal which the client then wanted at rock-bottom prices.

Now I know from my own client surveys and experience that 9 out of 10 UK businesses have had a bad experience of dealing with a (so-called) ‘web professional’, and I strongly suspect it’s because clients can’t tell the good from the bad, or the ugly.

Now there are some truly superb designers/developers about (some of whom I rate even commented on this post) but many business owners have no idea how to differentiate between these true professionals, and those who’re either still naive and learning, or just simply bad at their job.

If you can demonstrate a higher level of learning, experience, talent, and bring so much more value to a project then the client is simply wasting your time if they fail to see this.

I myself avoid competing on price by offering better value and greater business insight and return, and if my prospects don’t see the value in this then frankly they’re not the type of customer I want or need.

Thumbs-up to Matt Hill for his comments too…

Tim Carr

September 28, 2009 at 10:01 am

In my case, any prospective client who asks for a quote on a project is sent a project proposal worksheet, which spends a good 2/3 of a page detailing what we do and why we’re not cheap (because we do X, Y, and Z). It infers to the client that they should check these things are being included when comparing other prices.

For me, its worked wonders. Clients who’ve previously baulked at a figure far higher than they were expecting suddenly understand WHY the figure isn’t cheap, and begin to understand the true process involved.

A detailed breakdown quote also helps; again the client can see WHERE their cost is going across the project. Clients can then choose to remove certain elements (if possible), if they’re still price conscious.

Even if after all of this the client decides to go with the cheap and cheerful route, I’m safe in the knowledge that I’ve had a narrow escape from a client I wouldn’t want.

So let’s educate the prospective client – and actually see this through, not debate it for a month of Sundays. As Paul says, we’re all in the same boat – so why not put heads together and figure out a suitable way of educating and prescreening prospective clients, and making this available to the design / development community as a whole?

Andy

September 28, 2009 at 9:49 am

Couldn’t agree more – a significant point being that the sort of client who values their web presence so little is also likely to be a problematic client ongoing. If you turned out a £400.00 site for them, fitting to their budget as they had requested, you would most likely have them badgering you week in week out asking why the site didn’t feature this and that! We constantly have people asking why they don’t have a CMS, ‘Well, you didn’t pay for it, we worked to a budget’, why no forum, ‘Again, we worked to a budget that didn’t allow that’

Well done!

Paul

September 26, 2009 at 5:50 am

We are all arguing the same points from different points of view and there are far more factors contributing to our collective problems than RFP’s or ineffective marketing. It’s simply not that simple.

I don’t care that any of you disagree with my opinions as long as you are capable of understanding my points. Period. No one is wrong here and no one is 100% correct, but we are all in the same boat. So grab a paddle and start making an effort to convince less experienced professionals to row with us. Until we educate our own colleagues, we will never be able to educate our clients.

Thanks for the riveting discussion.

Drew

September 25, 2009 at 2:17 pm

I tend to do web work for clients who are on very small or totally non-existent budgets… artists, musicians, non-profits, etc. I charge $80/hr (us). Since most of the sites I work on are fairly straightforward, non-database driven online presences, an average site does usually come out around £400.

I don’t think I’m devaluing the web by doing what I do… the clients who are getting a site at that price from me, worked on in my spare time (because clearly I couldn’t make a living doing work at that rate), would never have had a site at all if they’d only had the option of buying a $2000 professional job. I consider it my ‘niche’ to offer low-cost, medium-quality work to people who simply don’t have the time or interest in having anything more.

Here’s how I see it; let’s say someone asks you to do a website for £400 and you turn them down, and they go and get that site done by someone else. If the site they got instead of yours wasn’t as good, then they weren’t looking for someone with your level of service anyway. You didn’t lose anything because the product they bought wasn’t what you were selling to begin with. If, however, they go out and get a site of equal or better quality than you were offering, perhaps you’re simply overpriced for the market. If someone can do exactly what you do at a cheaper price, then you’re never going to convince people that your work is worth more.

Chris Walley

September 25, 2009 at 12:59 pm

The problem is targeting a saturated market and having low perceived value, which as Matt says is effectively just a poor marketing strategy.

What’s screwing parts of this industry is it turning into a buyers market, there’s just so many Web designers out there now looking for work. It’s only logical that people will undercut one another to put food on the table. Yes it affects everyone – because that’s how supply and demand works.

You can wallow around in the cesspit that the online web design market has become, blaming everyone else for your situation, or you can clamber out and start reaching for the higher profile clients that will value your services.

Matt Hill

September 25, 2009 at 12:09 pm

Actually Paul, you’re quite wrong. What screwed this industry is the absurd RFP process and the willingness to do spec work that’s been driving it for years. *That’s* where it all went wrong to start with.

Matt Hill

September 25, 2009 at 12:08 pm

“If 90 out of 100 new business inquiries are seeking absurdly low rates for my services, THERE IS A PROBLEM. A problem that has been created, fostered, and defended by people who call themselves “professional” designers.”

The problem is one of marketing, that’s all. If you market yourself as cheap, you get cheap clients.

Put out the right message to begin with, and all this is a non-issue.

Jesse Brack

September 24, 2009 at 6:15 pm

Very well put!

Paul

September 24, 2009 at 5:38 pm

If 90 out of 100 new business inquiries are seeking absurdly low rates for my services, THERE IS A PROBLEM. A problem that has been created, fostered, and defended by people who call themselves “professional” designers.]

A couple of you seem to believe I am arguing that competition is not good. Quite the contrary. I am arguing that “Undercutting a price” assumes that the price is competitive to begin with …

Sorry guys, but I do have a right to be irritated by designers who claim to be professionals and charge obscenely low rates for their services. The fact that some “pros” take the time to defend such nonsense is disheartning.

What you fail to comprehend is that there are not “levels” of buyers. There are only “buyers”.

As long as art has been sold commercially, buyers have always sought the lowest rates for services. And, If you believe that “quote-fishing” is limited to low budgets, think again. Like it or not, charging rates that wouldn’t feed a homeless person DOES affect everyone in the profession, from newbies to established firms.

Once an expectation has been established, it becomes nearly impossible to change.

Consider this … “globalization” is bogus argument … Competing in the global marketplace also means that individuals and companies have easy access to communication tools that allow them to interact. Twitter, Facebook, crowd sourcing sites, and the like, make it all too easy for buyers to share their bargains with friends and business associates.

Once your “bargain” is found, do you honestly believe it will stay within the confines of your little world and it won’t affect the larger design community? Do you honestly believe these same buyers will understand your bargain was a “one-time” deal?

Pavol

September 24, 2009 at 5:21 pm

Sorry, but you are comparing APPLE with oranges. Apple is a SINGLE company, so of course they price their product the same across their stores. BTW, I didn’t buy APPLE, I bought DELL MP3 player. Works the same to me. For less.

“Sounds nasty and unfair, but I can’t afford to buy a Mercedes and I can assure you that the Mercedes dealer won’t lend me a car to drive until I can afford to buy it outright.”
Good for you, wait until you have enough money. WHAT? You did buy a car and it was not a Mercedes? How could you. So what that you needed a car, you only bought a vehicle, not a car. WHAT IS IT? It’s good enough for you because all you need is a car that takes you from point A to point B and you don’t need all the features Mercedes has? Plus you only use it locally most of the time? Still, what were you thinking? Did you ever consider how you hurt Mercedes brand? You didn’t and you are not hurting them, because you were never really planning on being their customers? How can you say that, everyone who wants a car is their customers. Only some of them have the money now, and some of them have to wait to save up. It sounds ridiculous? PLEASE, next time think before you act. Don’t you realize how much you are hurting once proud auto industry?

John Taylor

September 24, 2009 at 3:49 pm

There’s a similar discussion about a similar subject (spec work and ethics) going on over at the AIGA site..

https://www.aiga.org/content.cfm/what-is-aigas-position-on-spec-work-and-ethical-standards

Chris Walley

September 24, 2009 at 11:10 am

You can’t have it both ways.

Those of us that freelance owe that opportunity to open market that embraces fair competition. Many of us are successful because we’ve been able to undercut agencies by offering the same service for less cost, now the same may be happening to us as competition gets stronger.

Markets are driven by supply and demand, more supply drives prices down and boy have we seen an increase in supply. Many of the people who complain about new competition flooding into this industry fail to see that they to entered it at some point and competed for a share of the market.

The attitude of many is to bury their head in the sand and claim it’s the fault of the industry, the economy, software piracy, globalisation etc etc… basically blame everything but themselves. The harsh reality is if you aren’t winning work then you need to accept you may have failed to demonstrate value.

As consumers we’ve all learnt that you don’t always ‘get what you pay for’ we’ve all been exposed to overpriced products/services and found real bargains, nowhere is this more apparent than in the business to business world. Many of us will have experienced that with our own suppliers of hosting, stock photography and domain registration services.

If someone snatches work from my grasp then fair play to them, if they have found a way to give more value, understand the clients needs better or just have a good loss leader strategy then they are just doing better business than me.

Dave McDermid

September 24, 2009 at 10:17 am

Excellent article Sarah, totally agree. If you’re serious about it, and you’re working closely with your website designer for a quality result, it’ll cost you.

minor pernickety point, Apple have a ‘Black Friday’ sale every year – not to be missed 🙂

Matt Hill

September 24, 2009 at 10:00 am

@Jay: You’re right, generally web design is a service, but it can also quite easily be sold as a product as I pointed out in my first response. Mr. Site for example has been very successful, as have plenty of other web design businesses that sell pre-packaged solutions.

Pro designers creating custom solutions obviously do not sell at this level. That doesn’t mean it’s not the only way to do it.

I respect Sarah’s choice for taking her stand for integrity and I know why she can’t build a website for £400. I can’t either, that’s less than two days work on my day rate. I’ve been in the industry over 15 years and people pay me for my experience and expertise. So I totally get it, I really do.

But I also think that those of us fortunate enough to be in this position must be careful not to appear elitist and should be aware of the bigger picture. It’s a narrow view to state that others can’t provide good quality work at a low price. They can and are doing it right now and that’s not going to change.

Food for thought: How do you think this advertising company can offer 40K off?

https://www.brainstormgroup.com/40k.html

I don’t know much, but I know two things for sure:

1) Globalisation is here to stay.
2) People always want a good deal. Maybe you can’t give it to them, but someone can. And good for them!

Jay Greasley

September 24, 2009 at 9:03 am

A subsequent thought, the car industry analogy is completely wrong because, unless you sell web ‘packages’, web design is a service not a product. So a better comparison is the legal industry. Lawyers charge wildly diferent hourly rates depending on their experience, knowledge, area of law and their profile.
There is room for this range of price points. The interesting thing is that even lawyers fees are now being driven down and down. There is some thought from Richard Susskind that law firms may, in the future, offer their services for free and derive their income in other areas (public speaking etc).

Jay Greasley

September 24, 2009 at 8:14 am

Most of the comments here support the article and whilst I have a lot of respect for Sarah and others who have commented here, I disagree to a certain extent.
I am not a professional freelance designer (I am an employed developer) so my view may be irrelevant and skewed. I have however worked as a contractor for a lot of my career, charging wildly different rates depending on the demand for my skills at the time.
My view is that it is a basic human right that everyone should be allowed to work.
IF the designer values their work at £400, can afford to do it for that and the client is happy with the result then who is to say they shouldn’t do it? Especially in a time with such high unemployment.
Of course pro designers shouldn’t have to work down to that price and yes you do get what you pay for.
Market forces have to play a part in this, it is a commercial world and competition is rife. Mercedes cost more than Skoda because they are (aruably these days) a better car and have a certain brand image.
Lots of people can’t afford the Mercedes so have to settle for the Skoda. And many of them will be very happy with what they get at their price point.
You get what you pay for but also Horses for courses.
Good debate though because this will be more of an issue as the web continues to grow.
Web design is such a young industry that it and the people who work in it will need to evolve in the same way as, to continue the analogy, the car industry has had to.

John Taylor

September 24, 2009 at 7:13 am

I totally agree with you Sarah and unfortunately this kind of devaluing and undermining of our professional services is happeneing right across the industry at the moment.. and i suppose has been for a while.

Take iStock’s announcement this week that they are going to sell downloadable logos as a new product.. offering designers as little as $5 per logo! Add to that the ongoing debate over free spec and pitch work and it soons becomes apparent that there’s a lot wrong with our industry regarding fees, pricing and, as you say, professional and personal integrity.

Gary Aston

September 24, 2009 at 6:57 am

A product or service is only worth what someone is willing to pay for it. Good luck trying to cartel the millions of web designers out there! Maybe some should start a union then we could all go on strike?

Dave

September 24, 2009 at 2:21 am

£400?

Was the site static or DB driven?
How much variation was there across each site for each product?

And was the client happy to have someone create the sites that lived in India or Eastern Europe, where £400 would be pretty decent income for a week or even 2 week’s work.

Matt Hill

September 24, 2009 at 1:03 am

@Paul: Your post was going so well until you said “By charging next to nothing to design and develop a web site … your making a living at my expense … and, I have a right to get pissy about that.”

No, you don’t have any such right. Market forces dictate what people are willing to pay and what providers are willing to work for. If they can undercut you and still provide a good value, quality service, they have every right to do so. It’s called fair competition.

Globalisation has changed the market place completely. Whining about it isn’t going to make it go away. You have several choices:

1) Adapt your own offering to compete
2) Ignore the issue, since those providers aren’t your competition anyway
3) Die (as a business!)

If you want a share of the cheap-client pie, then choose option #1.

If you’re a highly experienced professional working on high profile projects, for high profile clients in a country with a high cost of living, you would realistically choose option #2.

And seriously, who would choose #3, unless you’re so pissed off and disillusioned with the “de-valued” design industry that you’ve actually had enough and want to take up pig farming. 🙂

Richard Angstmann

September 23, 2009 at 11:13 pm

@Paul
“By charging next to nothing to design and develop a web site … your making a living at my expense … and, I have a right to get pissy about that.”

I don’t think you do have a right to get pissy about that to be honest. Nor do I subscribe to the view that someone charging significantly less than you is making a living at your expense – as has been the theme of this comment thread, most people have said they wouldn’t DO the job for £400, or work with a client who would or could only pay £400. As such, no one is robbing you of anything, as you wouldn’t be taking such a job on anyway! 🙂

Still, it has to be said, and I do agree that if someone is willing to pay the price, and hire someone with experience and a good track record, they will (or at least should) get a better end product.

Paul

September 23, 2009 at 9:13 pm

“Some people simply can not afford that – should they miss out on having a suitable web presence?”

Yes. Sounds nasty and unfair, but I can’t afford to buy a Mercedes and I can assure you that the Mercedes dealer won’t lend me a car to drive until I can afford to buy it outright.

Over the course of my 14 year career, I have politely told many dozens of potential clients to “save your money until you can afford to do the project right”. And, guess what? Most of them do end up calling me (often times after getting burned by a cheaper vendor) and all of them respect me more because I respect myself and my business enough to charge what I am worth. Even as a student, I charged fair market rates for my work.

Understanding the marketplace is critical to learning how to price your services. If you habitually defend [your] low rates by citing a lack of experience, you shouldn’t be freelancing professionally. Get experience. Work for an agency, learn the business, and develop your skills at someone else’s expense.

By charging next to nothing to design and develop a web site … your making a living at my expense … and, I have a right to get pissy about that.

That said, cost-effective and give-away are two entirely different concepts.

Lynne

September 23, 2009 at 8:44 pm

Nice post. I’m with Jason Klug, the smaller budgets end up costing designers so much time and money in terms of expected freebies (during and post-build) because the value wasn’t appreciated from the beginning and so everything is “only a little extra” or “just a small change”. It completely devalues the product and like you say, sets unrealistic expectations for the future.

I’m sure most of us started off freelancing for not very much to get a folio together and there will be a whole host that do in the future. I think it’s down to the companies to think harder about who they are buying from. I did a post the other day on our blog about SEO saying if I was told for £29 a month I could get a 3 course lunch every working day I would question the quality so why would anyone trust their business and it’s online reputation to a ‘specialist’ quoting a simililarly small amount? It just doesn’t make sense to me.

Al Scott

September 23, 2009 at 7:25 pm

I think it is important to consider it in terms of time investment. How long (roughly) will a project take? The fee should reflect a decent hourly wage for your time. I think a lot of designers make the mistake of seeing what they do in terms of a commodity, ie that a website is inherently worth X amount, rather than a service that is worth X amount per hour of your time.

If people started thinking about it in terms of hourly wage, then they might stop undercharging. I’m sure a lot of people who take jobs for next to nothing end up earning sub-minimum wage when you work out how much time went into the project.

Unless you are just starting out and trying to get something to use as a portfolio, I don’t think anyone would want to work for less than they’d get paid in Macdonalds.

Adrian Short

September 23, 2009 at 7:18 pm

While I have sympathy for any web designer trying to earn a decent living (me too, right?) I must respectfully disagree with Sarah’s view.

Take the Apple example. Yes, Apple sell at a higher price and justify that by promising, and in many people’s view delivering, higher quality. Yet most people don’t own Apples, they own Dells and Acers and sub-£200 Asus netbooks.

Are Apples better computers than Dells, Acers and Asuses? Possibly, but the people that buy the cheaper computers either do not care (the extra quality doesn’t justify the extra price for them) or they simply can’t afford to pay more. So they get less.

So it is with websites. For clients that can clearly afford to pay more but are looking for a “bargain”, explain why you cost more or show what you can do within their budget. If that’s a plain page with a couple of images and a paragraph of text, fine. You can usually deliver high quality but less quantity, though the client most probably won’t get everything they expect.

There are designers at every price point (low, medium and high) delivering low, medium and high quality. Some cheap designers are good value for money. Some very expensive ones are massively overpriced.

It’s not cheap designers that drag down the image of the web design business. It’s bad value designers at all price points giving poor service.

To return to the Apple analogy, you can get an iPod Shuffle for £30. You get Apple quality, but don’t expect the App Store, games, videos or even a screen. If you really want an iPhone you’ll have to pay for one.

Andy Marshall

September 23, 2009 at 7:09 pm

Haha – I wrote my last comment while eating a large deep pan pizza from my long time pizza takeaway place.
And then thinking that pizza I had the other day from the new place up the road was loads better – smaller (and i guess you might say more expensive) but better.
Teaches me to buy cheap again…. you do indeed get what you pay for!!

Matt Hill

September 23, 2009 at 6:51 pm

I commented earlier, but have been following the replies and wanted to make another point.

There are a lot of discussions on the web at the moment about the design industry being “de-valued” by globalisation, crowdsourcing, bidding contests, etc. And to be honest, the people making the most noise about it are those of us commanding (or wanting to command) higher salaries for delivering a professional service. It strikes me as slightly crazy that we’re worried about the so-called threat that globalisation brings. It’s no threat at all.

Sure, in the short-term, it seems as if everyone and his dog is churning out cheap websites or logos. Good luck to them, that’s what I say. Who has the right to say that a qualified designer working in country with a low cost of living shouldn’t be allowed to charge less for their work? Everyone who shows some talent and initiative and works hard deserves to be rewarded appropriately, regardless of their country and cost of living.

I ritertae my point: Know your strengths, know your value, do good work and sell it a price that rewards you appropriately. A client thinks you’re too expensive? So what! Find some others who think you’re cheap, then increase your rates!

@Angstmann: I think there’s plenty of potential to offer solid, professional web design in a cost effective package for small businesses on a tight budget. I’m working on such an endeavour as we speak.

Richard Angstmann

September 23, 2009 at 6:34 pm

Interesting post, and I fully understand the frustrations – but I pose the question, where do the clients on small budgets go? Who (other than these bedroom rookies) is providing a service to the clients on a small budget? Must they get bad design, bad web sites if all they can afford is £400?

It would be a disaster if it became the standard perception that you can’t get an effective web presence (of some sort) unless you pay many thousands of pounds for it. Some people simply can not afford that – should they miss out on having a suitable web presence?

Also, must all £400 web sites be bad? If I did a web site for £400 then I’d make it clear from the outset what that £400 would get you – it wouldn’t necessarily end up being bad, and I wouldn’t feel I had devalued myself (or ‘the industry’) so long as I hadn’t devoted thousands of pounds worth of my time to it!

Sarah

September 23, 2009 at 6:33 pm

@foamcow – Oh I can totally see it from both sides, don’t get me wrong, my overheads are about as low as they can go but I still won’t do a site for £400 – I truely believe we’re all worth more than that.

£400 in another country, I totally agree with your point, but when the client is making stipulations that it must be UK based, and other benefiting factors, it needs to reflect in the price.

@kat neville I’m not mad at the people who do, but I think our industry has been devalued as a whole due to this, and we are all guilty of it at some stage. Myself included. I think we should make clear lines between a Skoda and a Mercedes quality website if the price is reflecting that. I just think it would benefit everyone in the long run…

Some really interesting comments though! 🙂

Andy Marshall

September 23, 2009 at 6:28 pm

Its definitely an interesting one, and something I’ve been thinking about since your last post on a similar matter (https://www.sazzy.co.uk/2009/06/hammer-it-home/).

Its tricky for me in a way as when Ii got made redundant just under a year ago, and went freelance with my wife we had nothing to our name in terms of client base – knowing this we realised we had to take on a couple of strategically interesting jobs that would look good in our portfolio. We contacted a couple people and essentially offered them a site for free – not even £400 – free! We treated them in every way possible like they were fully paid jobs, launched them and every project we’ve done since and currently in the pipeline have come in purely on people seeing these sites – no marketing, no real networking, just people coming to us having seen our initial sites (and our own i guess) – it worked – we had clients!

…and yet in the mean time we were still doing jobs for next to nothing – only now do we feel we can charge an appropriate amount for our time and are doing jobs around the £4-6k budget, but thats after a year of earning very little and working at “knock off” prices.

I talked to a friend who’s been in the business for many years more than us and they can charge upwards of £6k for a nice CMS brochure site – nothing fancy, but works well and looks good – but they have a name to themselves – they have a brand, and a reputation which means they can charge that.

I’m sure you’ll agree that there is of course a difference between people who only do the £400 knock off sites forever in their spare time for a bit of tax-free work on the side, and people who take it seriously and are doing it as skilled professionals starting out but don’t feel able to charge appropriately, but I guess its that former group that are doing the damage to the latter group and the industry at large, but it does to an extent raise the question of how people starting out get work without whoring themselves off for peanuts.

I’ve also often wondered about how other professions manage this “cowboy” approach to cheap work, and unfortunately, most seem to have a regulating body that monitors and can check up on work and sanction anyone doing a bad job. Gone are the days when a mate with a DIY book can rewire a light switch ring or install your shower, sweep a chimney or fix a roof. Now you need people that can prove they deserve to be paid the price they charge.
But we web designers have no such body to guarantee the quality of our work, and therefore the price we charge … and would we even want one?

Not only is it another barrier to entry for people like me who find themselves in a situation where they have no formal training but can still make a good site with proper CSS etc, but to create such a body will no doubt mean more costs for us to pay out for membership etc.

…but then, would membership to such a body mean we can see average prices start to rise and so more easily charge appropriate prices and become more able to deal with?

Many circular thoughts that don’t necessarily have an answer, but I think it does highlight that if there is an answer, its not an easy one.

José Mota

September 23, 2009 at 6:25 pm

It’s not the first time you post something like this if I recall… What kind of karma is that? 😛

As usual, spot on. The last time I charged that amount was to my dad.

I guess that’s the terrible burden of freelancing. Been through there, now I’m safe 🙂

J. Pedro Ribeiro

September 23, 2009 at 6:15 pm

I’ve seen this situation happen countless times. Eventually the client will realise that the cheap solution will cost more in the near future. If only we could explain this to them…

Bruno Abrantes

September 23, 2009 at 6:11 pm

Like others above pointed out, there is always someone who will accept to the job for next to nothing, either because they’re kids with cracked copies of Dreamweaver or just desperate enough to take it.
For most clients price is the main criterion and, even if everyone raised their prices to an acceptable rate there will always be someone inexperienced or desperate enough to lower their price just to get the job.
The problem is design (and to an even greater extent, development) is seen as immaterial and therefore of little value since, as you stated in your article, most of your development cost is measured in time. Will this change? I hope so.

Anny

September 23, 2009 at 5:27 pm

A few years ago I was looking for work and approached a company in the area that was looking for a student in the area to renovate their website and add new media player functionality. I spent an entire day in their office discussing proposals, without charge, then went home to piece it all together, work out a rough timeline and and calculate the cost of my work.

A few days later I got back to them with a relatively low quote (around the £1,500k mark, I forget what exactly) for two solid months of work – I was a student at the time, but very good at what I do, so I thought it seemed reasonable. To take an extract from the director’s response:

“Please take note of this advise, the web industry is close to saturation and I get offers every day from hungry web designers wanting my business, at some point the pricing will accelerate down and down till people wont be able to afford to do it for a living, so you need to be establish early on to not fall into this dilemma of one man bad web designers. So think hard about how you quote!”

He not only failed to recognise the value of web development, but chose to personally insult me as well before even seeing any output. I think the problem may be not just bedroom coders creating (poor) websites at minimal cost, but public attitudes toward web development. I know a lot of people who think web development is an easy job because every man and his dog is doing it, and many of those think I earn a ridiculous amount for sitting at my computer all day. Haha.

I find that being creatively successful in this industry is highly contingent on finding the right type of client… namely, people that understand what the web can and can’t do, and that appreciate the worth of your knowledge. I largely relegate myself to freelancing for specific web agencies because there aren’t enough of those people…

kat neville

September 23, 2009 at 5:17 pm

I say pass the projects on to those people. They’re saying their work isn’t worth as much as yours and that’s fine. I charge more now than I did 2 years ago because I’m better, and like you say, “you get what you pay for!” When this client again becomes dissatisfied with the quality for what he’s paying he may finally come back.

Don’t get mad at those people that can hack together something within the client’s budget. They’re fulfilling a market that you won’t!

Gary Aston

September 23, 2009 at 5:06 pm

“If you think hiring a professional is costly, wait until you hire an amateur”. Who said that?

As a side issue I wonder though, are some designers who bemoan the devaluation of web design the same people who devalue photographers by buying imagery from microstock websites a la iStock, Shutterstock etc? Food for thought.

Good post Sarah.

Andy

September 23, 2009 at 5:01 pm

I think this is always going to be an immovable constant. I remember my early ventures in web design where accepting any work seemed perfectly acceptable, no matter the budget – and unfortunately I don’t think it will ever dissappear – someone always will be there to step in and mop up the ‘cheap job’. To them, your discomfort or greater cause really isn’t important unfortunately.

I agree entirely with the sentiment, however I think it’s a battle never to be entirely won. The best you can do is accept it as a ever-present part of the industry and elevate yourself above it in the way you describe; by accepting it exists and try not be frustrated by it. Like IE6…

Foamcow

September 23, 2009 at 4:54 pm

First off, I totally agree that you should in no way have taken this project for £400 but I think some of your validation for saying nobody should is off the mark.

“if the Yellow Pages, (the traditional printed book) 10 years ago said to everyone “You can have a full page colour advert for £10 per year”

I’m sure a major driving factor in them not offering £10 full page ads is economic viability. It would be difficult to artwork, print and distribute at that price point. I’m guessing that’s more likely the scenario in the case of the Yellow Pages.

Taking web sites and this situation in particular, you are basing your price point on economic factors that relate to you and your business in the UK, at this point in time. Obviously for £400 you cannot produce work to your high standards and maintain a viable business – it’s just possible.

But what if someone’s overheads were lower? What if they didn’t need to charge as much as you might? Should they artificially inflate their prices to match someone charging more?

Consider, by way of example, someone in Eastern Europe where the cost of living is less. Or perhaps someone that works on web stuff “part-time”, from home.

So whilst I do agree that “knocking out” sub-standard, low-par sites for a few quid is not good for the industry I don’t think it’s true to say that a website *should* cost more. I do believe you are talking about a number of sites here so it’s not a £400 project really.

Personally, I am in a situation where I could probably do what you described for £400 – although I would most likely have gone in at around £650 minimum and I would make sure the client knew they were getting me at a low price. They probably wouldn’t get a site as pretty as it could be but I like to think it would be “tidy” and better than average. That said I can only afford to do this as I have another source of regular income and I don’t go in so cheap for every job. But does that make me “wrong” as it were? If I can meet the demand then why shouldn’t I?

The one factor in this scenario that would probably make me leave the project alone is that the client is selling high value items. It’s not that they can’t afford to pay more but rather, as you say, that they place little value on what they are buying.

Perhaps a way to still get this work would be a compromise. If the client wants to pay £400 a site, then suggest they consider a “commission” based on what is sold as a result of them employing your services. Say a 12 month agreement that you receive 1% of the revenue of sales generated by the site(s)?

Matt Hill

September 23, 2009 at 4:44 pm

I agree in principle with what you’re saying; like many (most?) web designers, I regularly decline work that doesn’t meet my baseline criteria: Is the client willing to pay for my expertise?

However, there is a problem here that’s subtly highlighted in your post. You claim we’re a service industry but then state “we have a product that consumers want.”

Which is it? Are we providing a service, or a product? Are websites a culmination of skills, experience and expertise, or are they simply commodities?

One type of client will only ever see a website as a product and will therefore expect that product to be a reasonable price. We can try and educate these clients, but to be honest, we may as well flog a dead horse.

The fact remains that some clients understand and will pay accordingly, and some won’t. I constantly hear that we should be educating clients to understand the value we bring to projects, but it is entirely impossible to educate a client who’s sole motivation is to get it for the lowest cost possible.

We should put our effort into finding clients who either already get it or are open to being educated about the value we bring to projects.

I applaud your stance Sarah and respect your decision to maintain your professional integrity. Professional web designers can’t compete with the low cost bedroom coders, so why even try? Focus on better clients, forget about what everyone else is doing and just do what’s important: great work.

Lee Munroe

September 23, 2009 at 4:40 pm

Good points Sarah. One of the key things is how do you identify small budget clients or ‘timewasters’ (timewasters maybe isn’t a nice term but that’s what ends up happening, they waste your time) early on?

One thing I started doing was putting a reference to average project costs in my website planner e.g. What’s your budget? (please note most projects start at £xxxx). This way you’re left with the genuinely interested clients with decent budgets.

Amy Mahon

September 23, 2009 at 4:39 pm

I can tooooootally relate to this!

I often got similar responses whilst freelancing with the general attitude being “Oh, I could get my neighbour’s friend’s son to do this for $200.” Sure, fine. Get your $200 website, but you’ll get what you pay for. Chances are the kid is 13 with a WYSIWYG editor, has no design background and will neglect SEO, accessibility, and standards…

I got an email just last month saying “I like your blog design – can you do one for me? My budget is $200.” I got so insulted and cursed a bunch at the screen!!

Obviously clients who don’t understand the extent & value of the work that goes into a web design are not clients you’d want anyways. They’d wait until you had nearly finished developing the site and then completely change everything (and wonder why you’d charged them extra for it).

Niall

September 23, 2009 at 4:33 pm

I totally agree with what you are saying but on the flip side I can see why some people would do it.

I have heard you say in the past that when you started out yourself you did websites cheap because you wanted the work. I know when I first started out (8 years ago) I did a number of websites cheap as well but much of my motivation in doing so was not for the money but was to build up a portfolio of work.

I always found it hard starting out pitching for jobs when I didn’t have much of a portfolio to showcase my skills so I can see why people do it. In many cases the only way people ‘think’ they can get sites is by going cheap but we all know that by them doing so it devalues the market for everybody else.

Would I do that site for £400, not a chance in hell but like Wez said the kind of clients who pay bottom end prices are the ones that aren’t going to be around for long.

Proper clients know they need to pay a proper price, rubbish ones don’t. Let them have their cheap and probably nasty website and come back in 6 months time when it goes wrong!

Jason Klug

September 23, 2009 at 4:33 pm

It always seems (in my experience anyway) that it’s the $400 Website clients that have are the hardest to work with, because they have no real frame of reference for what goes into building a custom site (which is probably why they think $400 is a reasonable sum in the first place).

I completely agree that educating clients is the way to go to change this trend, and that when some “can’t turn down work” developer agrees to do a site for $400, they’re hurting themselves and their industry.

One thing I’ve done to “weed out” these problem clients is to post my prices on my site–giving would-be clients an idea of what it’ll cost them before they contact me and I spend time wooing / quoting them. I find the wooing / quoting is the most frustrating and least productive part of the whole project cycle. I’d much rather “standardize” prices for a few of my common services than have to quote each project individually to a client that has no idea what to expect. It’s worked great for me for about 4-5 months now.

Coris Leachman

September 23, 2009 at 4:31 pm

Hi Sarah,

Great post and response to why people shouldn’t design sites for such a cheap price. Even after streamlining the implementation process as best as possible to save time in areas that are acceptable, you’re still faced as you say, with initial information abstraction, project management, design conception, cross browser testing etc etc. And let’s not forget writing the proposal, generating invoices, and more often than not, invoice chasing. All for £400 – no chance!

Dave Randall

September 23, 2009 at 4:24 pm

Hits the nail right on the head Sarah. Andy Clarke said it best for me “You don’t get paid for the hours you work, but for the years learning your skills and craft.” (https://twitter.com/Malarkey/status/2494993986)

Elliot Jay Stocks

September 23, 2009 at 4:24 pm

You’re absolutely right, Sarah. And no-one is going to get a good site for £400. The price will always reflect the quality. Although students might take on work like this (hell, I used to, and for much less, too!), and to that extent can seem like a good idea, it won’t be a good idea for the client, because the professional quality they’re after is not going to be achievable by someone who charges that kind of money for a site.

Clive Walker

September 23, 2009 at 4:23 pm

I understand and agree but as long as I have been working as a freelancer, there have always been potential clients who go for the lowest price (or where price seem to be the main/only criterion). We can all tell clients about the time it takes, what is involved, the quality of the work, and why a higher price represents better value…. but surely the website market is like many others and there will always be people in the market who say “I can do it for that price”?

Wez Maynard

September 23, 2009 at 4:20 pm

Absolutely spot on sazzup.

Unfortunately something as intangible as web work is never going to resonate with some clients. However – these clients wont be around for ever. 😉

(**I am in no way a hitman**)

Martin Bean

September 23, 2009 at 4:18 pm

Heated, but completely valid.

I mentioned this on Twitter this morning in response to you, but the expectations are pathetic and it’s all thanks to kids in their bedrooms with cracked copies of Dreamweaver offering to do websites for £50, and the response you quoted above (“forward this to @**** he would knock out a website for that price.. plus hes good.”).

Unfortunately I’ve been down this route before working in a niche market where budgets are tight. They won’t commit to any work unless it’s cheap/free, but complain that their image is poor. Like your blog post title: they get what they pay for, but blame every one but themselves.

You Get What You Pay For

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