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	<title>Comments on: Hammer it home&#8230;</title>
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	<link>http://www.sazzy.co.uk/2009/06/hammer-it-home/</link>
	<description>Life in the web industry</description>
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		<title>By: Will</title>
		<link>http://www.sazzy.co.uk/2009/06/hammer-it-home/comment-page-1/#comment-416</link>
		<dc:creator>Will</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Sep 2009 20:00:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sazzy.co.uk/?p=112#comment-416</guid>
		<description>There&#039;s so much I can say about this, but I feel like this is a fight Paul Rand began all those years ago.

There&#039;s too much &quot;redesigning&quot; (aesthetic based) when it&#039;s actually a realigning (functionality &amp; useability based) that&#039;s needed. People are better at calling attention to problems outside their expertise than solving them, but unfortunately you will almost recieve this &quot;feedback&quot; in the form of an actionable demand. For example, instead of &quot;we want a color scheme that puts our users at ease,&quot; I think clients are more likely to say &quot;give me blue.&quot; Instead of saying &quot;for some reason our content is not engaging users enough to convince them to visit elsewhere on the site&quot;, you&#039;ll hear &quot;we should probably be making three times as many content updates daily&quot;

I think a lot of us are behaving like artists/designers for hire instead of the experts we should be paid to be. I think as soon as a meeting with a client starts with them telling you the number of pages they want on the site and what the links to these pages in the nav menu should be called, you&#039;re already headed down the wrong path. I&#039;m working towards (or trying to, at least) being the kind of designer who works with the client to craft a solution based on what they&#039;d like to achieve, as opposed to just doing what they think they need to achieve it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There&#8217;s so much I can say about this, but I feel like this is a fight Paul Rand began all those years ago.</p>
<p>There&#8217;s too much &#8220;redesigning&#8221; (aesthetic based) when it&#8217;s actually a realigning (functionality &amp; useability based) that&#8217;s needed. People are better at calling attention to problems outside their expertise than solving them, but unfortunately you will almost recieve this &#8220;feedback&#8221; in the form of an actionable demand. For example, instead of &#8220;we want a color scheme that puts our users at ease,&#8221; I think clients are more likely to say &#8220;give me blue.&#8221; Instead of saying &#8220;for some reason our content is not engaging users enough to convince them to visit elsewhere on the site&#8221;, you&#8217;ll hear &#8220;we should probably be making three times as many content updates daily&#8221;</p>
<p>I think a lot of us are behaving like artists/designers for hire instead of the experts we should be paid to be. I think as soon as a meeting with a client starts with them telling you the number of pages they want on the site and what the links to these pages in the nav menu should be called, you&#8217;re already headed down the wrong path. I&#8217;m working towards (or trying to, at least) being the kind of designer who works with the client to craft a solution based on what they&#8217;d like to achieve, as opposed to just doing what they think they need to achieve it.</p>
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		<title>By: John Pitchers</title>
		<link>http://www.sazzy.co.uk/2009/06/hammer-it-home/comment-page-1/#comment-358</link>
		<dc:creator>John Pitchers</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Sep 2009 14:38:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sazzy.co.uk/?p=112#comment-358</guid>
		<description>Oh yeah, Sarah. I hear ya. This is a topic I&#039;ve ranted about on my own blog and it&#039;s amazing how many new customers mention that particular post when we start discussing pricing. Definitely &quot;Hammer it Home&quot;. When customers understand before hand that we are service based then there&#039;s no issue asking for money before projects are completed.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh yeah, Sarah. I hear ya. This is a topic I&#8217;ve ranted about on my own blog and it&#8217;s amazing how many new customers mention that particular post when we start discussing pricing. Definitely &#8220;Hammer it Home&#8221;. When customers understand before hand that we are service based then there&#8217;s no issue asking for money before projects are completed.</p>
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		<title>By: Liam J Moore</title>
		<link>http://www.sazzy.co.uk/2009/06/hammer-it-home/comment-page-1/#comment-348</link>
		<dc:creator>Liam J Moore</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 18 Jul 2009 15:45:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sazzy.co.uk/?p=112#comment-348</guid>
		<description>You&#039;ve hammered your point home, and hit the nail on the head!

I think because our industry is realatively new, compared to handy men and women, people are unsure of it, therefore their confusion and down-right bad behaviour gets reflected as such.

I think it involves a bit of education from us to them. Making it clear during the first meeting would let both parties know where each other stands.

It&#039;s tough, on one hand you want to be professional and polite, on the other, you kind of want to punch their lights out!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You&#8217;ve hammered your point home, and hit the nail on the head!</p>
<p>I think because our industry is realatively new, compared to handy men and women, people are unsure of it, therefore their confusion and down-right bad behaviour gets reflected as such.</p>
<p>I think it involves a bit of education from us to them. Making it clear during the first meeting would let both parties know where each other stands.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s tough, on one hand you want to be professional and polite, on the other, you kind of want to punch their lights out!</p>
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		<title>By: Stephen Hay</title>
		<link>http://www.sazzy.co.uk/2009/06/hammer-it-home/comment-page-1/#comment-347</link>
		<dc:creator>Stephen Hay</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Jul 2009 07:10:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sazzy.co.uk/?p=112#comment-347</guid>
		<description>Unfortunately, this is not unique to the web design industry. Any service industry has to deal with this. More unfortunately, freelancers and very small businesses are often targeted by this type of &quot;client&quot;, although very large companies encounter the same problem. Dan&#039;s approach is correct: be explicit up front, in your proposal, in your contract and in your terms and conditions. Explain how this works in person as well.

Sometimes all this won&#039;t help, and it&#039;s hard and costly to extract money from a client who won&#039;t pay. Often, they know this fact and use it to their advantage. (Most clients are just fine, BTW)

Recently, an article on Smashing Magazine suggested charging per project. Sarah, your post is the reason I disagree with that. While you can add &quot;commercial value&quot; or usage licensing to invoices for larger clients, charging by the hour is a *good* thing, especially when you speicify that the client is paying for your *time*, and not for an arbitrary end result. Time spent = time paid if push comes to shove. 

You don&#039;t spend the night at a hotel, decide the bed wasn&#039;t as comfortable as you&#039;d have liked and then refuse to pay. That would be unthinkable.

One thing that has helped us in the past: if you outsource the hosting, NEVER give out any passwords before final payment. In eight years of running my business I&#039;ve only had to remove a client&#039;s website once. But I was glad I at least had that ace op my sleeve: no payment? No website.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Unfortunately, this is not unique to the web design industry. Any service industry has to deal with this. More unfortunately, freelancers and very small businesses are often targeted by this type of &#8220;client&#8221;, although very large companies encounter the same problem. Dan&#8217;s approach is correct: be explicit up front, in your proposal, in your contract and in your terms and conditions. Explain how this works in person as well.</p>
<p>Sometimes all this won&#8217;t help, and it&#8217;s hard and costly to extract money from a client who won&#8217;t pay. Often, they know this fact and use it to their advantage. (Most clients are just fine, BTW)</p>
<p>Recently, an article on Smashing Magazine suggested charging per project. Sarah, your post is the reason I disagree with that. While you can add &#8220;commercial value&#8221; or usage licensing to invoices for larger clients, charging by the hour is a *good* thing, especially when you speicify that the client is paying for your *time*, and not for an arbitrary end result. Time spent = time paid if push comes to shove. </p>
<p>You don&#8217;t spend the night at a hotel, decide the bed wasn&#8217;t as comfortable as you&#8217;d have liked and then refuse to pay. That would be unthinkable.</p>
<p>One thing that has helped us in the past: if you outsource the hosting, NEVER give out any passwords before final payment. In eight years of running my business I&#8217;ve only had to remove a client&#8217;s website once. But I was glad I at least had that ace op my sleeve: no payment? No website.</p>
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		<title>By: Damien Buckley</title>
		<link>http://www.sazzy.co.uk/2009/06/hammer-it-home/comment-page-1/#comment-346</link>
		<dc:creator>Damien Buckley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Jul 2009 01:51:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sazzy.co.uk/?p=112#comment-346</guid>
		<description>The main problem is that for the most part, graphic and web designers don&#039;t behave like service professionals or even in a manner that suggests they are running a business.  This makes things VERY hard for the rest of us.

We deal with these things very simply - for websites and logo designs etc - ALWAYS get a deposit - we charge 50%.  If the client has a problem with that, walk away.  Have an order form clearly stating your terms - and dont do a thing until you have the signed copy - even if they&#039;ve paid a deposit.  They must sign to accept your terms &amp; conditions as if you end up needing to resort to enforcing them, you&#039;ll be dead in the water without a signature.

Always get paid up front (in full) for any printing work you&#039;re getting done for a client before you send it to the printer - dont carry other peoples debts for them.

Set your own payment terms and DONT negotiate - we are very inflexible with this and I recommend you do the same. We give 7 days terms period, no ifs, no buts.  If they are overdue, email or call them DAILY until they pay - believe me they&#039;ll get tired of it before you do.

In 5 years of business we have lost not one dollar and most of our clients pay on time - set the standard and expect people to keep to it. If they cant, get rid of them - there are plenty of clients out there who will.

Dont be afraid of being tough over payment terms etc - you wont lose as many clients as you might think and trust me, the ones you lose, you&#039;re better off wthout…</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The main problem is that for the most part, graphic and web designers don&#8217;t behave like service professionals or even in a manner that suggests they are running a business.  This makes things VERY hard for the rest of us.</p>
<p>We deal with these things very simply &#8211; for websites and logo designs etc &#8211; ALWAYS get a deposit &#8211; we charge 50%.  If the client has a problem with that, walk away.  Have an order form clearly stating your terms &#8211; and dont do a thing until you have the signed copy &#8211; even if they&#8217;ve paid a deposit.  They must sign to accept your terms &amp; conditions as if you end up needing to resort to enforcing them, you&#8217;ll be dead in the water without a signature.</p>
<p>Always get paid up front (in full) for any printing work you&#8217;re getting done for a client before you send it to the printer &#8211; dont carry other peoples debts for them.</p>
<p>Set your own payment terms and DONT negotiate &#8211; we are very inflexible with this and I recommend you do the same. We give 7 days terms period, no ifs, no buts.  If they are overdue, email or call them DAILY until they pay &#8211; believe me they&#8217;ll get tired of it before you do.</p>
<p>In 5 years of business we have lost not one dollar and most of our clients pay on time &#8211; set the standard and expect people to keep to it. If they cant, get rid of them &#8211; there are plenty of clients out there who will.</p>
<p>Dont be afraid of being tough over payment terms etc &#8211; you wont lose as many clients as you might think and trust me, the ones you lose, you&#8217;re better off wthout…</p>
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		<title>By: Seun Lawal</title>
		<link>http://www.sazzy.co.uk/2009/06/hammer-it-home/comment-page-1/#comment-345</link>
		<dc:creator>Seun Lawal</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Jul 2009 03:43:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sazzy.co.uk/?p=112#comment-345</guid>
		<description>Clients just don&#039;t get it! We&#039;ll have to do our best to make the terms clear before starting on the contract.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Clients just don&#8217;t get it! We&#8217;ll have to do our best to make the terms clear before starting on the contract.</p>
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		<title>By: The LOL Cats Take On The World Of Freelancing &#124; Hi, I'm Grace Smith</title>
		<link>http://www.sazzy.co.uk/2009/06/hammer-it-home/comment-page-1/#comment-344</link>
		<dc:creator>The LOL Cats Take On The World Of Freelancing &#124; Hi, I'm Grace Smith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Jul 2009 13:50:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sazzy.co.uk/?p=112#comment-344</guid>
		<description>[...] are first and foremost a service industry and as such deserved to be paid like any other service professional. However this point still [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] are first and foremost a service industry and as such deserved to be paid like any other service professional. However this point still [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Jeff Brown</title>
		<link>http://www.sazzy.co.uk/2009/06/hammer-it-home/comment-page-1/#comment-340</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeff Brown</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Jun 2009 04:07:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sazzy.co.uk/?p=112#comment-340</guid>
		<description>Reminds me of a video I watched recently on YouTube.  The Vender / Client Relationship in Real-World Situations.  Enjoy.    

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R2a8TRSgzZY</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Reminds me of a video I watched recently on YouTube.  The Vender / Client Relationship in Real-World Situations.  Enjoy.    </p>
<p><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R2a8TRSgzZY" rel="nofollow">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R2a8TRSgzZY</a></p>
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		<title>By: Sarah Fan</title>
		<link>http://www.sazzy.co.uk/2009/06/hammer-it-home/comment-page-1/#comment-339</link>
		<dc:creator>Sarah Fan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Jun 2009 12:11:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sazzy.co.uk/?p=112#comment-339</guid>
		<description>Wow. Sounds like you&#039;re as intelligent as you are beautiful.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow. Sounds like you&#8217;re as intelligent as you are beautiful.</p>
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		<title>By: Kev Adamson</title>
		<link>http://www.sazzy.co.uk/2009/06/hammer-it-home/comment-page-1/#comment-338</link>
		<dc:creator>Kev Adamson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Jun 2009 20:11:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sazzy.co.uk/?p=112#comment-338</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s all about the contract / agreed proposal at the end of the day. If it&#039;s clear what service you&#039;re providing, and also the terms of the service, everyone knows where they stand.

I&#039;ve been burnt a few times, nothing major, but it did make me re-think my approach to certain projects (especially relatively big ones which feel a little bit &quot;loose&quot; for comfort). I wrote this a few months back about a &#039;pay as you go&#039; approach:

http://www.kevadamson.com/talking-of-design/article/time-is-and-money-and-stuff</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s all about the contract / agreed proposal at the end of the day. If it&#8217;s clear what service you&#8217;re providing, and also the terms of the service, everyone knows where they stand.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve been burnt a few times, nothing major, but it did make me re-think my approach to certain projects (especially relatively big ones which feel a little bit &#8220;loose&#8221; for comfort). I wrote this a few months back about a &#8216;pay as you go&#8217; approach:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.kevadamson.com/talking-of-design/article/time-is-and-money-and-stuff" rel="nofollow">http://www.kevadamson.com/talking-of-design/article/time-is-and-money-and-stuff</a></p>
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