Why I can’t build a website for £500…..
16 Apr
This never ceases to amaze me. I had a project enquiry come in yesterday, the client initially asked for a ‘Web 2.0 website built in flash”… to which I had to explain that those two words don’t really belong in the same sentence. Maybe this was a warning sign however, I forwarded my website worksheet to try and gauge a little better just what exactly they were after …. sent in two seconds and no harm done.
I get the worksheet back and they do have a great idea of what they are looking for, a site identical in functionality to a well known CBBC website. They have thought about colours, brand awareness, the actual users of the website, everything. It was one of the most detailed design briefs I had seen in a long time. I skip to the part where I always ask about budget, curious as to how much they have put aside considering all other aspects of the site have been well thought through, only to see…
Ballpark around £500
My reaction is always split down the middle when I see ridiculous web budgets. I normally start off annoyed and then come round to the fact that it’s just down to the client being misguided by someone or something or having no knowledge of the web industry whatsoever. This is normally when I respond with a very diplomatic email and this one was no different, here’s an outline of what I said.
Thank you for the prompt reply with the Website Worksheet. I have had a good read through and I totally understand what you are looking to achieve.
However, the budget you have set for the site is unfortunately not enough to build a site of this calibre. I do understand it’s hard when you are not in the field to know how to gauge a budget correctly, it’s my job to try and give a little insight into budgets and why, in this particular case, you will struggle.
The xxxxxxx website you are comparing your new site to, is large. I know you will be starting off small and building up to a large website, but the infrastructure still needs to be in place to enable you to add news items and video every day and gradually build up the content.
I then went on to explain the process of web design in brief, how we start off on paper or wire framing, then turn our hand to design then eventually the development side. How we have to inevitably go back and forth on the design until sign off and then deal with stumbling blocks with cross browser compatibility and so on.
I estimated the site would take 4 weeks solid work with 2 people working on the site. I then explained the following:
£500 over 4 weeks divided by 2 people works out at £1.56 per hour – I’m not showing you those sums to be patronising at all, please don’t think that, but I’m just merely trying to point out why it would have to be increased considerably before we could look to producing the site for you.
I don’t need to go any further into details, the client can work out for themselves that £1.56 an hour is below minimum wage and that our profession is highly skilled, therefore it would take a lot more than £1.56 to even get us to our desks.
I then signed off the email with the following:
I know you said £500 as a ballpark, I’m just trying to give you an idea of what a professional web design firm would charge you to get the standard that I know you want to achieve.
Inevitably, I never hear from the clients again, or if I do, it’s for them to say they “don’t have the budget” to use me. I still feel like it’s my job to try and explain why I wouldn’t be able to help them rather than just sounding cocky or not responding at all. I feel like the only way we can stop this from happening is to break down exactly why their budget is insufficient rather than leaving them in the dark about it – for the sake of the client and the next designer they approach.
NB. I have just received a very appreciative email from the client in question thanking me for my helpful breakdown and that explaining to them in basic terms was exactly what they needed. They have been able to increase the budget to a reasonable amount, possibly still not enough however it’s a good step in the right direction.
I'm Sarah Parmenter, owner of 
Maybe they accidentally missed off a zero, but even then, sounds like it could still fall short.
Appreciate your comments here, as always. Glad that you are promoting the business angle of web design.
That’s exactly why I have stopped doing web work.
There are sooooo many designers out there who think that they can build a website because they use DreamWeaver (yawn) that the value has just completely disappeared.
Too many cowboys, not enough respect, and too many people in a much too crowded marketplace.
I have been asked to provide fully content managed systems for £250 before. It’s just a joke.
Hey I am guilty and learning fast, I quoted for a website at £600 as I was desperate, I design for print, I feel like a loser, I can create the look and feel of a website, but building it to work, I am so bad, I need to kick myself. I need to find a really good web designer, me thinks and create a beautiful partnership.
There’s nothing worse than selling your time too cheap because you become to dislike the client and your art!
Nice attention grabbing post title, Sarah!
Again, I think you handled the client well. I ask the question; would you ever take any job for £500?
Great post Sarah – It’s good to hear that you took the time to write back and explain in more details the problems with their budget. Some web designers wouldn’t even take the time to follow up on such a low budget on what sounds to be a fairly ‘involved’ website. Let us know how it works out
It sounds like you handled this admirably to me. It’s easy to blow a gasket when you see your services being under-valued in this manner. But it’s usually just a result of a lack of knowledge and people with bad websites gloating to their friends about how little it cost them.
Love this post, Sarah. Thanks so much for doing a blog post on the situation. I feel a little better equipped now for dealing with clients like this in the future
Very mature response and even if you don’t hear back from the clients I think in the long run you’ll gain a few extra clients or referrals as a result.
I always find it frustrating when on a site of a domain I don’t understand (domain as in knowledge not url) that doesn’t list prices. Am I looking at a £100 item or a £10000 item. Sometimes when you really don’t know an area you just don’t know the costs.
It might be an idea to have somewhere in your portfolio or Website Worksheet, a guide that explains a few site scenarios, hours of work needed and approximate costs. This might save you time up front, with dead leads as well as give you some help when people are looking around. I often will pick a service or company to use if I know the price before I contact them.
In fact, I don’t even want to do the website anymore, Sarah, how can I politely tell them to go away and never to ask such ridiculous things of me.
Maybe im beeing too negative, but i think that in the future with everything in programming beeing more modular and easy to do, the web development will be too easy for newbies.
So eventually the prices will drop with too much offer..
@Leanne Parish – Leanne, if you haven’t taken a deposit from them, you could simply explain that the budget they have allocated is not enough to cover your costs of producing the website. Explain how long it’s going to take and what that equates to with your hourly rate and the rest they will be able to work out themselves, try and negotiate a rise rather than writing the project off. As the above shows, sometimes it’s suprising what they have stashed away!
Thanks Sarah this is good stuff, however, this client is one I could do with losing on this occasion, I do not even know any web designers that are good and local AND would want to work with me so I need to get some sort of setup before I go jumping in, I feel like I have been bullied into the work because I have been working on there print stuff (for probably too little as well)
I have been bullied because I am cheap, they knew it, they got costings in else where and guess what I was the most cost effective i.e well over a grand or 2 less.
I feel dirty and promise not to let this happen again.
This is great! i shall be using your tactic next time i get an email about creating eBay on a £200 budget
The combination of a tiny budget and a request for a “Web 2.0 website built in flash” pretty much shows the client’s misunderstanding of what they *really* need in a website – not a good start! But kudos for the reply you gave them… It’s good that you educated the client, and explained exactly why the project would be impossible, rather than turning it straight down. It’s not only polite, it shows your knowledge and expertise in the area, something they obviously appreciated.
Great post Sarah, good to see an insight into how other people deal with situations that we all come across from time to time.
@Leanne Parish – whereabouts are you? feel free to get in touch regarding finding a web developer to help you out with future projects.
Nice reply. I might make it a template
Very inspiring. I have always wondered how others dealt with this type of situation. Bookmarked.. may even point this page out to others as a good example of how to deal with this type of situation.
@josé (& generally) – the thing is, even for a simple wordpress build £500 is unrealistically cheap; sure, it takes half an hour to go to your control panel & do a new one-click install & use one of the built-in themes which come with the install, but presumably a professional service client will be wanting something considerably more than that – at the very least they’d be wanting ‘extensive customisation’ of an existing theme, & usually wanting the look & feel to be bespoke to them. £500 usually considered to be on the cheaper side of a day-rate – one day to extensively customise / produce a new theme from scratch ?
& that’s just for the time sitting at the computer. what about the time spent in discussion with the client, learning about their business, determining their true needs rather than their perceived needs, batting back & forth the signed off requirements, chasing the assets for the job, & doing the paperwork for the invoicing (& inevitably chasing the payment, because how many clients pay on time anyway ?) ? still think you can do a website for £500 ?
myself, i too have largely stopped doing freelance web work – partly because i’ve realised my skillz have not kept up with the industry, but mostly because pretty much everything i’ve done for under a grand has turned out to be more trouble than its worth. it has never ceased to amaze me the way the less clients are willing to spend, they more they expect the moon on a stick & exclusive call on your time for the privilege.
You have explain the situation in detail. I have seen someone looking for facebook clone for $1500-$2500. I was just wondering how is it possible. Is the so eassy?
thanks
Thanks for sharing this experience, it’s a great example of how to cleverly handle a customer and still remain confident of your own value – heartening!
We get these requests EVERY DAY!
Madness, and it is ruining good designers & creative talent.
We sometimes would discount any projects over the 4k mark which is in somewhat fair, but have had the case where customers have got roped in the “I do you a website for £500″ speech and it looking pretty substandard, therefore them coming to the likes of my company or another for a website they end up paying more but for a job well done, professional and “exactly what it says on the tin”… though loosing out on £500 previously.
As the saying goes, you pay for what you get!
Sarah, great article. Nice to hear your insight into this. I wholeheartedly agree with your method… it has to be broken down into a costings exercise (remind anyone of recent Apprentice episodes?)
My biggest fear is that the client then takes it upon themselves to implement the site… or uses a mate they have who does “web design”. At FlipStorm, we’re just starting out, and one of the first things I decided when setting up this business was: “don’t be afraid to turn work down.”
Unfortunately no work has come our way to turn down yet
plus I like to think I can be quite reasonable with my pricing, but still your point still stands and was well made. It has solidified my resolve!
http://twitter.com/simonhamp
Great article Sarah! Taking the extra time out to educate and explain to a client who seemingly had no idea of what it takes to design and build such a project is commendable practise.
We need more designers and companies like yours to handle similar situations in the same manner much more often!
These types of emails from clients, usually tear me in two separate ways. On one hand, I’m really annoyed, and see it as my place to educate them on just how unrealistic and stupid they are. I often find myself writing long emails, just to get the frustration off my chest, asking them how they could possibly come to that figure, given the basics of economics. Even as a child, I knew that I couldn’t have a whole box of sweets for 20p.
I then invariably delete the email, and respond with nothing. Realising that no valuable work can ever come from containing the conversation.
What’s worse though, is if they don’t give an indication of budget because they want to ‘see what comes back’. Time is then subsequently spent on the proposal, only for them to go to the last page and realize that it’s 50 times what they had in mind. Waste of trees and time!
Once I got one who wanted an e-bay clone with $1000. LOL
If I had a penny for every time I got a request like that from either an internal or external customer … well … I would have one VERY heavy piggy-bank …
Great response however, certainly a good move on your part.
I just found your blog via a tweet from Grace Smith.
Excellent blog! totally in agreement with the client management/business issues you write about so well here.
Adding you to NNewsWire, Twitter etc.
Cheers.
Thanks for writting about this topic. Here in Mexico the profession of designer is not valued as it should be and I’m trying to change that. I can’t go against the current trend which is “pay for the result, not for the process”. I’m starting a project that involves talking to the people about this issues and try to change the mentality.
I’d like to know if I can take your article and use it as an example because is well written and you make a clear point about this situation.
Tanks.
I really enjoyed reading this and appreciate the fact you posted this on your blog. Its hard to not just ignore a tiny budget like this, but hopefully others will see the work you put into just the explanation and bring you more work because of it. Bravo.
isn’t it funny that the more you charge, the less problems you have with a client. maybe it’s because they respect your consulting and judgment when you appear to have your costing right.
@José Maria Barros i think you are very wrong. there is no way to shortcut original creative work and it is hard even for an 8 year web developer like me to keep up with the advancements in the field. if you want it done right, it takes time which takes money.
the fact is taking less than standard pricing hurts the industry as a whole and we, every developer and designer, need to charge appropriately or we all lose.
just remember how much agencies quote the client before they pass the actual work down to the creatives who do the work for a small fraction as it is.
Excellent response to a tricky situation, Sarah! I’d definitely need to have a few minutes lying down to regain my composure after reading a request like that, and even then I’m not sure I’d be able to be quite so diplomatic. I’ll have to remember to break down costs in the same way when tackling similar RFPs.
That was a great, polite, informative response you sent them – thanks for sharing it! You’ve inspired me to take a similar approach next time I receive an email like that.
An interesting read considering this is the business i want to go in to. Makes me worry about dealing with clients, i’m not so sure that i can write a response like yours without sounding patronising.
The clients i deal with at the minute are probably vastly underpaying me, i’d love to see an article about how you give your estimates/estimate how long a project will take.
Interesting post. @Adam Smith, I’d say my opinion of the matter is between Sarah’s and yours.
I also feel the urge (but seldom do anymore) to write a lengthy but polite “educational” email. I’ve since learnt that it serves very little purpose as the recipient will likely scan it and delete it and move on.
Also, just not responding is passing up the opportunity of them possibly upping the budget, or the future prospects of referring “those guys that were too expensive, and are obviosuly damn good”.
To take a middle ground, I’d restrict my response to a short <3 sentence reply that politely explains the situation and gives them the chance to adjust their budget/requirements to suit, or walk away with a good taste in their mouthes over having dealt with someone so professional and polite.
My 2c.
It’s encouraging to find web professionals taking the time out to educate a potential client. In this case, the client has come back with a budget that’s closer to being realistic so the effort taken to write an email like this can actually produce tangible results.
That was a great read, Sarah!
Good post Sarah, unfortunatley there are web designers advertising websites at £99 of course this often has a lot of hidden costs and usually consists of a template and opensource build but this sets a precedent.
I often get ” well if xxxx can do it for £100 why can’t you” I usually reply that you get what you pay for but yours is a much better approach.
Thanks Sarah for a really informative read. Like many others that have commented here I too have most likely sold myself short especially when starting out.
One problem I do find, is that I now live in Spain and people think that they have just boot up their PC, open up frontpage
and start bashing away making websites for 100 – 200 Euros. The standard of work is appalling, however potential clients all seems to expect the earth for the same amount of money.
I have also noticed that people wanting websites etc are targeting sites such as 99designs, GetAFreelancer, Elance etc.. Whilst they get a design brief over to a greater audience, the spec work is in my opinion undervaluing the ability of many great designers.
Thanks again for a great article
This is what I have found with experience:
Mostly, the individuals/companies looking for $500 website are first timers.
They get the pricing ideas from bidding websites, where any individual with dreamweaver & downloaded “free-templates” is working for hobby money.
Thats where everything about web business is getting spoilt.
Many clients getting there web site done on these portals for a small rate boast about there “marquee-full” websites. Eventually, they come to know that there site’s worth nothing because there was really no idea & thought put behind developing it. And then they go for next step> getting re-designed & developed by good designers.
Eventually, they understand about the importance of Web.
Sarah,
Love the fact that you feel the need to explain and break down the tasks involved.
thanks for sharing this story
I agree – we all need to try and educate any potential clients on the value of our work. Though it seems ridiculous to be asked to work for such small budgets – it is often down to the client not realising the amount of time, talent, knowledge and expertise required.
Thanks for a great post
Great read Sarah. Just goes to show that in our field you need to have the general skills as much as the technical skills!
Unfortunately for a new web designer starting out this is kind of a catch 22 situation. As you are unproven you will tend to quote or accept work at silly prices just to get going. The problem is that because you have quoted waaaay below what you actually should have done you will tend to produce rushed work with loads of shortcuts. Unfortunately this results in the site not matching up to your own (perceived) standards and ultimately not being able to be used in your portfolio. So, in the end, the only reason you took on the site at that price has now been destroyed and you can’t get more work because your portfolio is full of rubbish, rushed sites!
Ahhhhhh!
I’d love to say I take the same approach but it just takes too much time – I think I did in my early days but I normally just reply with ‘I don’t have the capacity for new projects’. Even if you do try and educate them, they will more than likely find someone who will promise to deliver the site for the budget and that will be music to their ears, even if it results in a substandard website (which it more than likely will). You have to realise that in every industry there are markets out there for all budgets.
Very impressive tact. I am interested, could you share the worksheet that you give out to clients? I am working on one, and would like to see how yours compares.
£500 thing happens for following reasons:
1. People are clueless about what it takes to build a site even if you are using WordPress or whatever ‘does it all out of the box’ solution. Chances: VERY HIGH.
2. There is much crappy ‘competition’ in the far East where boys with a Pentium II are ready to take a stab in the dark at something and £500 is a lot of money somewhere in India for example. Chances: VERY HIGH
3. People may only need 1 page to outline what they do and why they exist on this planet. £500 is often a fair price for that and it should not take longer than an hour to build and deploy that. Chances: MEDIUM
4. You might want to do a site for a future ‘mega brand’ in hope that it will blow up and you might get loads on repeat work for it and/or gain kudos for having done their first ever site. It also may provide you with an ‘in’ to other sources of work or connections. Chances: VERY LOW
5. This person may be a friend of yours and you might want to do them a favour because you think they are fit and you might want to marry them, so you are trying to ‘buy your way into your future children’. Chances: VERY VERY LOW
6. People are just trying to pull a fast one. Chances: VERY VERY HIGH
Hope this makes sense.
Hey,
great post, this is something that I often find the problem especially as a web design student. Clients seem to think as you are a student you can work for this low wage or as you said they are simply misinformed.
Something we have learn’t is how to deal with these situations and not to undersell ourselves. You delt with it in a great way and reminded me how important it is to explain the situation to the client by breaking the process up to them.
Real life scenario:
Client paid very little for a site. Then they were unhappy with that site around a year after it launched. I did not build that site, but they were looking for me to build their next one. While looking for quality this time around, they were budgeting approximately what they paid for the site the first time (the one they dislike).
Reasons for this appear to me as one of the following:
1) They are under the impression that building websites really only costs that much (paltry sum). They just got a raw deal with a putz last time. They think this time should be different.
2) They wasted money on the first one and are strapped for cash now, but know they really need a better site.
3) They are merely ignorant on what it takes to make a quality website.
I realize that it takes up “our” time to educate the consumer, but if we don’t make the effort we can expect more of the same kind of ignorance to flourish. Comparatively speaking, our industry is still quite young. I think it is safe to bet that it took other industries to establish their value with similar growing pains.
Thanks for the great article! Yes, it’s always the case with me. I live in Singapore and I thought It won’t happened in UK (which I know that people usually appreciate a design better than here).
Either print or web designing job, most of the clients will try to get the lowest from me (they don’t even care about the minimum wage). I’m always hear these excuses :
1. We’ll give you more projects after this if you can give us cheap.
2. My project can help you build a better portoflio and recognition afterwards. Think of experience and portfolio, not the money.
3. Why so expensive, I can get somebody else to do it FOR FREE! (It really happened to me)
4. And so on and so on…
Even some friends are making advantage over me. Some of them are hoping to get a very cheap or even FREE (most likely) design for their commercial project. I don’t mind doing pro bono works as long as for non-profit or charity cause, but not commercial.
A lot of people out there that need to be educated on how we work and why they can’t get it cheap. The sample you’ve shown here is a really good example on how to explain to them. Nice read, thanks for sharing!
I think its really great that you made sure to educate the client, because as you said, often clients just DON’T know what is actually involved in the whole process of a web design and build. Sometimes it’s just a matter of ignorance.
I recently had the same issue where I asked a client what their budget was, and they said they “didn’t really have a budget”… I sent them an overview of the web process (which I adapted after reading Web Redesign 2.0: Workflow that works) and sent them a few questionnaires, and they were blown away! They told me I had no idea what a “qualitative difference” I was presenting.
I think it makes it easier to swallow (the cost) when they understand the process, and why it can take as long as it does.
Nice to see fellow designers dealing with this issue in a really mature, educated manner.
Excellent article Sarah. @gracesmith tweeted the link a few days ago.
If you look on places like Elance you will see plenty of people/companies bidding seemingly very low bids on web site projects. As someone has mentioned above, they want a web site “just like” E-bay/Facebook/Elance for less than $500.
What is your Website Worksheet?? Is this a quick form you send to potential clients asking them sorts of things like what “look and feel” they want, sites they link, features (as well as asking them things like budget).