<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: Why hourly rates won&#8217;t help us in 2009.</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.sazzy.co.uk/2008/12/why-hourly-rates-wont-help-us-in-2009/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.sazzy.co.uk/2008/12/why-hourly-rates-wont-help-us-in-2009/</link>
	<description>Life in the web industry</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Sat, 04 Feb 2012 12:31:24 +0000</lastBuildDate>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1</generator>
	<item>
		<title>By: Marie Poulin</title>
		<link>http://www.sazzy.co.uk/2008/12/why-hourly-rates-wont-help-us-in-2009/comment-page-1/#comment-289</link>
		<dc:creator>Marie Poulin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 18 Apr 2009 23:17:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sazzy.co.uk/?p=72#comment-289</guid>
		<description>Great post!
I&#039;ve been struggling with this recently... I think the key is NOT showing an hourly rate on your proposal, as you&#039;ve said. I find myself &quot;padding&quot; my hours to make the hourly rate I want but am afraid to charge... 
I think it&#039;s better to charge what the project is worth, regardless of hours. If, as you&#039;ve stated, you explain the value of the process to your clients, they can&#039;t argue with value.
Thanks!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great post!<br />
I&#8217;ve been struggling with this recently&#8230; I think the key is NOT showing an hourly rate on your proposal, as you&#8217;ve said. I find myself &#8220;padding&#8221; my hours to make the hourly rate I want but am afraid to charge&#8230;<br />
I think it&#8217;s better to charge what the project is worth, regardless of hours. If, as you&#8217;ve stated, you explain the value of the process to your clients, they can&#8217;t argue with value.<br />
Thanks!</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Attitudes of the self-employed &#124; Craig Killick &#124; Small Business &#38; Marketing</title>
		<link>http://www.sazzy.co.uk/2008/12/why-hourly-rates-wont-help-us-in-2009/comment-page-1/#comment-195</link>
		<dc:creator>Attitudes of the self-employed &#124; Craig Killick &#124; Small Business &#38; Marketing</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Dec 2008 08:43:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sazzy.co.uk/?p=72#comment-195</guid>
		<description>[...] Through Twitter, I follow a savvy freelance web designer called Sarah Parmenter. I say savvy because not only does her work look good, but she seems to understand the need to challenge the way she offers her services., eg. this post about freelance charges in 2009. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Through Twitter, I follow a savvy freelance web designer called Sarah Parmenter. I say savvy because not only does her work look good, but she seems to understand the need to challenge the way she offers her services., eg. this post about freelance charges in 2009. [...]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Craig KIllick</title>
		<link>http://www.sazzy.co.uk/2008/12/why-hourly-rates-wont-help-us-in-2009/comment-page-1/#comment-194</link>
		<dc:creator>Craig KIllick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Dec 2008 08:31:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sazzy.co.uk/?p=72#comment-194</guid>
		<description>I agree Sarah and the bonus for fixed price work is that as your value rises, so can your prices. That two designers may charge the same rates per hour and the client gets two different results is problem with hourly rates.

I run an agency and we use freelancers to come in and help out when needs be. Two that I can think of charge exactly the same amount, but one of them delivers to a much higher standard and we really get our moneys worth. And, of course, he is the first one we call when we need something.

If you keep rates at £xx per hour you can only earn so much. If you commoditize your offering, you can make more. Some you will win on and some you will lose on and after a while, you will realise which clients not to take on at initial meeting stage. In other words, the first person to realise the value of what you offer should be you.

Nice post.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree Sarah and the bonus for fixed price work is that as your value rises, so can your prices. That two designers may charge the same rates per hour and the client gets two different results is problem with hourly rates.</p>
<p>I run an agency and we use freelancers to come in and help out when needs be. Two that I can think of charge exactly the same amount, but one of them delivers to a much higher standard and we really get our moneys worth. And, of course, he is the first one we call when we need something.</p>
<p>If you keep rates at £xx per hour you can only earn so much. If you commoditize your offering, you can make more. Some you will win on and some you will lose on and after a while, you will realise which clients not to take on at initial meeting stage. In other words, the first person to realise the value of what you offer should be you.</p>
<p>Nice post.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Tim Marshall</title>
		<link>http://www.sazzy.co.uk/2008/12/why-hourly-rates-wont-help-us-in-2009/comment-page-1/#comment-193</link>
		<dc:creator>Tim Marshall</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Dec 2008 17:26:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sazzy.co.uk/?p=72#comment-193</guid>
		<description>I always quote a fixed price for projects; clients i have found certainly in recent years really need to know how much a project is going to cost them up front. You tend to find you get very good at speccing up the project and ensuring you don&#039;t end up going over the projected costs too. 

If additional items get thrown into the mix by the client then i have no issue with letting them know that if they wish that extra bit doing it will cost them and will also add time onto the project. It makes the client think long and hard about wether they really need the addition as it will cost them money and (sometimes) extend the project development time.

Obviously small amends etc tend to get done included with the original cost here and there but if they start getting excessive then it&#039;s only fair to charge. One recent client of mine sent me 27 Revisions of the same document; obviously my patience wore thin after the first few and i ended up charging him twice the original development costs because of all the amends and additions.

I guess it comes down to personal preference and what the market will bear; both methods of charging can work well if you plan your time well to suit.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I always quote a fixed price for projects; clients i have found certainly in recent years really need to know how much a project is going to cost them up front. You tend to find you get very good at speccing up the project and ensuring you don&#8217;t end up going over the projected costs too. </p>
<p>If additional items get thrown into the mix by the client then i have no issue with letting them know that if they wish that extra bit doing it will cost them and will also add time onto the project. It makes the client think long and hard about wether they really need the addition as it will cost them money and (sometimes) extend the project development time.</p>
<p>Obviously small amends etc tend to get done included with the original cost here and there but if they start getting excessive then it&#8217;s only fair to charge. One recent client of mine sent me 27 Revisions of the same document; obviously my patience wore thin after the first few and i ended up charging him twice the original development costs because of all the amends and additions.</p>
<p>I guess it comes down to personal preference and what the market will bear; both methods of charging can work well if you plan your time well to suit.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Tim Almond</title>
		<link>http://www.sazzy.co.uk/2008/12/why-hourly-rates-wont-help-us-in-2009/comment-page-1/#comment-192</link>
		<dc:creator>Tim Almond</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Dec 2008 17:16:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sazzy.co.uk/?p=72#comment-192</guid>
		<description>There&#039;s some truth about this in a recession, especially as company budgets get squeezed. They can&#039;t keep going back to their finance people asking for a bit more.

I&#039;ve done a few fixed price projects. A couple went extremely well, most went fine, and one went extremely badly. The main lesson I learnt was to test expectations. If you don&#039;t know a client, start small with them, or set regular milestones of sign-off with them. You may come up with a list of deliverables and how they perceive what that deliverable is, and how you perceive what that deliverable is could be very different. May not be so different with something like stationery, but in software engineering, it can be huge.

You&#039;re right about revision sets. It&#039;s much easier to have some contingency when they change their mind on something small and deliver on that change than to get into battles over what&#039;s in the contract.

One thing is that clients really like fixed price, and are often prepared to pay more for it (a lot more) than for open-ended day rates to build. They know what their position will be, so consider it less risky.

The other thing that I&#039;m starting get my head around is the idea of an ongoing support and maintenance contract in these times. So, rather than building a website for someone that they own, they rent use and updates. This is certainly more risky for the developer and of course, that would be factored in, but you could sell to someone the idea of rather than selling a site for £x,000, they pay £x00 per month for its use. Not sure yet, though...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There&#8217;s some truth about this in a recession, especially as company budgets get squeezed. They can&#8217;t keep going back to their finance people asking for a bit more.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve done a few fixed price projects. A couple went extremely well, most went fine, and one went extremely badly. The main lesson I learnt was to test expectations. If you don&#8217;t know a client, start small with them, or set regular milestones of sign-off with them. You may come up with a list of deliverables and how they perceive what that deliverable is, and how you perceive what that deliverable is could be very different. May not be so different with something like stationery, but in software engineering, it can be huge.</p>
<p>You&#8217;re right about revision sets. It&#8217;s much easier to have some contingency when they change their mind on something small and deliver on that change than to get into battles over what&#8217;s in the contract.</p>
<p>One thing is that clients really like fixed price, and are often prepared to pay more for it (a lot more) than for open-ended day rates to build. They know what their position will be, so consider it less risky.</p>
<p>The other thing that I&#8217;m starting get my head around is the idea of an ongoing support and maintenance contract in these times. So, rather than building a website for someone that they own, they rent use and updates. This is certainly more risky for the developer and of course, that would be factored in, but you could sell to someone the idea of rather than selling a site for £x,000, they pay £x00 per month for its use. Not sure yet, though&#8230;</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: José Mota</title>
		<link>http://www.sazzy.co.uk/2008/12/why-hourly-rates-wont-help-us-in-2009/comment-page-1/#comment-191</link>
		<dc:creator>José Mota</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Dec 2008 17:12:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sazzy.co.uk/?p=72#comment-191</guid>
		<description>I hate giving hourly rates, it really makes me wanna take more time to complete a task. I always try to make it project-wide, it adds value I guess.
Besides, everytime I was asked to work by the hour, it was to fix. I hate fixing other people&#039;s bugs, it&#039;s such a PITA, I must say. If there are bugs, the guy who put &#039;em there fixes &#039;em, not me.

Brilliant post there, Sarah! I should do those invoices and stuff a little better.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I hate giving hourly rates, it really makes me wanna take more time to complete a task. I always try to make it project-wide, it adds value I guess.<br />
Besides, everytime I was asked to work by the hour, it was to fix. I hate fixing other people&#8217;s bugs, it&#8217;s such a PITA, I must say. If there are bugs, the guy who put &#8216;em there fixes &#8216;em, not me.</p>
<p>Brilliant post there, Sarah! I should do those invoices and stuff a little better.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Tom</title>
		<link>http://www.sazzy.co.uk/2008/12/why-hourly-rates-wont-help-us-in-2009/comment-page-1/#comment-190</link>
		<dc:creator>Tom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Dec 2008 17:05:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sazzy.co.uk/?p=72#comment-190</guid>
		<description>I think the most important thing to know before you turn your work in to &#039;products&#039; is how long historically these things have actually taken you. If you time all your work you&#039;re better placed to accurately measure what you need to charge as a fixed fee. This way you cover the jobs that inevitably run over. No change in the way you bill will stop some clients taking the p*** while others are a joy.

As an example, we charge £80 to setup Google Apps for someone. If I&#039;m doing it with a fresh domain name previously unregistered it takes about 20 minutes. Good profit. However, if the domain is existing and needs tranferring you need to get the information out of the client, help them migrate their existing email account etc. In the end it generally works out about the same as our normal hourly rate.

The thing we still haven&#039;t quite cracked is selling knowledge. Accountants/solicitors and the like seem to have this one cracked. The clock starts now....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think the most important thing to know before you turn your work in to &#8216;products&#8217; is how long historically these things have actually taken you. If you time all your work you&#8217;re better placed to accurately measure what you need to charge as a fixed fee. This way you cover the jobs that inevitably run over. No change in the way you bill will stop some clients taking the p*** while others are a joy.</p>
<p>As an example, we charge £80 to setup Google Apps for someone. If I&#8217;m doing it with a fresh domain name previously unregistered it takes about 20 minutes. Good profit. However, if the domain is existing and needs tranferring you need to get the information out of the client, help them migrate their existing email account etc. In the end it generally works out about the same as our normal hourly rate.</p>
<p>The thing we still haven&#8217;t quite cracked is selling knowledge. Accountants/solicitors and the like seem to have this one cracked. The clock starts now&#8230;.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>

